Malcolm Smith: An Interview with British Healer Malcolm Smith
I booked an interview with Malcolm Smith through Eileen Johnson and her husband,
Ron, who facilitate the British healer's appointments on his regularly scheduled visits to
Southern California under the auspices of ARE (the Edgar Cayce organization).
He has been doing healing work for 23 or more years, largely in England. A book originally published
in England about his work, HEALER!, has been republished and updated in America, just very recently.
My appointment with Malcolm was scheduled for 9 p.m., but didn't actually begin until almost
11 p.m. on April 25th, 2003. He arrived from his last healing appointment only a minute or so
before my telephone call and it took a few minutes for him to settle in and get a cup of
coffee in hand, during which time we exchanged hellos and a few pleasantries.
I asked him if he was too tired for an interview. He said he was not. Taking him at his word, I was off:
PC (Pat Chalfant): Eileen Johnson said that each day you're scheduled for
something like a 10-hour day doing healing--is that right?
MS (Malcolm Smith): A 12-hour day. I do get a couple of breaks. Usually I get a half hour break
for lunch and then about an hour and a half for dinner. So it's a 10-hour working day.
PC: That's amazing! I was just now rereading the interview article Robert Krajenke wrote about
you for ARE's magazine, Venture Inward. (Note: This article is on the web site mentioned above.)
The author described you healing a young girl in this way: "Malcolm rested his hands lightly on
the crown of her head, and then over her eyes." I work in a Spiritualist Church that teaches
healing by Spirit leading. Do you work by instinct or do you believe you are really led?
MS: To start with, I had to go to a Spiritualist Church to develop the gift. I was told by a psychic
many years ago that I had the gift, but you have to develop it as you do with any gift. I went
to a Spiritualist Church in England and they taught it the way they thought it should be done,
which is that it needs to be a laying on of hands on the body. In different healing techniques,
some don't actually touch the body, but it seems to be more potent when you do.
When I do touch the body, yes, quite often the hands may be led into certain areas of the
body that need extra time with the energy and I do work, for sure, with guides, or
spirit doctors--whatever people feel comfortable calling them.
PC: When you first started doing healing just with your family,
did you think you were working with guides?
MS: No, I didn't believe that I was doing the healing. I just thought it was a placebo effect.
Because I never feel the energy that passes through me. Even though I
was working with my family, I didn't feel the energy.
PC: So at first you didn't feel the energy then?
MS: Never do. The thing is they were getting a response to the laying on of hands. So I felt,
well, if they think it's making them feel good, that's okay by me. I'll just go with the flow.
Basically, the healing gift came before the Spiritualist Church…I was told by a medium…
PC: Yes, that's also part of the story that Venture Inward ran…
MS: I was told by a medium, but I didn't know she was a medium--we had gone to visit a relative
many miles away--and the relative had a friend in the house. The friend was a psychic and I had
never seen her before. She was the first who told me I had this gift of healing. Then I just did it on
the family--the wife, kids, that's all. Like I said, I thought it was a placebo effect, but what
happened was that then we got poltergeists in the house…
PC: Then you went to the Spiritualists to try to get rid of them?
MS: For the poltergeists we had to go for outside help and that outside help was a Spiritualist Church.
When I went there, a development group was starting that very night for healers. So I got involved with that group.
Like I said, they tell you that you work with guides and angels and Spirit doctors. (I find that in America,
people like to call them angels, they don't like the term "Spirit")…
PC: Yes, that's generally true in America, I know.
MS: …they like to call them angels. So I just go with the flow on that one. Indeed, I do work
with Spirit doctors. The energy itself is from God but the appliance has got to be with the doctors
using their energies. It is not just governed by the healer who just works here (on earth). If it was
just governed by the healer, it would go all day every day--but it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't
even work. Most of the time it does. I do truly believe that these spirit surgeons are angels who work with
me who are doing work with me out of God on the Spirit side of life, with the energy He has provided.
PC: Do you sometimes have the experience of seeing these spirit people when they work with you?
MS: No. Sometimes, I sense people who are with me, but most of the time, I don't.
I'm not much of a "see-er" or hearer. On a number of occasions, though, some of the patients
I have worked with have actually seen the main spirit surgeon who works with me. Now in the
23 years of doing the work, he has only been seen about 12 or 13 times by different patients,
but what makes it very interesting is that they all describe him exactly in identical detail--the way
he dresses--even down to a piece of unusual jewelry he wears. You can't have different people
over a 23-year time span coming in with exactly the same information without it being true information.
They claim that he has appeared to them--materialized--and often has frightened the daylights
out of them, but he usually appears to them because he's come to bring healing and he usually
comes while they are in the sleep state in the middle of the night. So, occasionally,
they have actually wakened up and have seen him…
PC: So what happens is that after you have done a healing on someone,
later they may wake up in the middle of the night and see him?
MS: Quite often I do remote healing and a person will request a healing to be sent to them.
Obviously, it is this great doctor, this great surgeon's role to go out to the individual to work
with him, and often this great surgeon has been seen by these people.
After gleaning information from these people (and I never share this information and I won't
share it with you). I do know his name. I do know which country he comes from. I do know the way
he dresses and which era it was when he lived. The reason I know this is that one lady years ago
requested remote healing, which I sent her, and one evening she woke up about 2 o'clock
in the morning and there was this man beside her bed in her bedroom and she said, "Who
on earth are you and what do you want?" She thought he was somebody who had broken in.
And he said. " I am…" (and he told her his name) "…and I've come to bring you peace." She
said, "Well, go away, go away!"…and once she realized that she was frightened of him,
he was gone! So sometimes, if a patient asks him a question, he will reply.
The first time he was ever seen was many years ago when I was doing work on my daughter
who was seven at the time. She got bronchitis and she woke up the following morning after I'd
given her healing, and she said, "Dad, I woke in the middle of the night and there was a man
standing over me with his hands on my chest and his hands were burning." I asked her what he
looked like, and she described him in detail and it was the same man. That was the first one
who saw him, and I thought she was either telling me lies or she'd made up a story or she had
been dreaming. But there is no such thing as people lying about what
they've dreamt. She was the first one to see the guy.
PC: Oh, how interesting!
MS: And then we have to go a few years before he was seen again. Again, the same dress,
the same piece of jewelry, same exact detail. And another lady woke up-- again in the
small hours--and she said, "Who are you and where have you come from?" Again, he gave
his name and it was the same name, given to these two persons years apart, "…and I
have come from…" and he gave the country and it was the same one. So
gleaning this information, I know a lot about him.
PC: In the Spiritualist Church here in the U.S., as I said, people are taught to heal by moving their hands
around the client as they feel moved to, instinctively. Is that different in the Spiritualist Church in England?
(Scroll down to continue...)
MS: For the first six months of the classes in the Spiritualist Church in England, you are not
allowed to actually touch the patients and that's to weed out those who are really interested
from those who are not. After six months the group of would-be healers usually dwindles from
13 or 14 down to maybe three. That's the first six months. They do explain to us that we do work
with guides and the guides need us for a linkup between them and the patient--to plug in the
socket so to speak. You know, you've got the cable but you need the plug on the
end of the cable or you can't make the connection.
Though the church I worked in did not say this to us, I've found out since that some churches
tell you that you need permission to touch the body. Even if the person turns up for healing, and says,
"I've come for spiritual healing," you've still got to ask, "Is it okay if I put my hands on the body?"
I believe in asking permission.
We are told that we, as healers, have got to have patience and so does the patient. Again,
some of these healers will drop out of the program because they have not got enough
patience to see things through. If they don't have a healing or it's not happening after two
or three visits, then they get tired and move on. Basically, you try to learn patience, and then
each healer has to develop his own style and his own techniques.
PC: Do you do it in a sort of biofeedback way? That is, if something works
with a certain patient, or with a certain condition, then you do that again?
MS: Yes. Instant miracles do happen, even for the big stuff. But usually, it's a slow
progress. We learn to tell people that slow progress is better than the deviation. And in
England, you usually get people going to healers only when the medical profession's failed them.
Basically, we have to learn patience. We know that we are not doing the healing.
We have to understand that we are not the healers.
We also sometimes have to have tolerance, too, because you're sometimes going to
get people coming--occasionally Fundamentalists, for example--who will say, "If he is not
healing through Jesus, then he's not going through God." You have to learn to tolerate these
people. You have to learn not to argue with them. Basically, you just learn that spirituality
comes in many forms, and some people have attitudes and you have to tolerate that.
PC: So you have to not let the patient's belief system get in your way.
MS: Right. That's for sure. Sometimes you get, for example, a wife coming along with her
husband and the husband can be really negative about it all, but he's there because his wife
is kind of attracted to it all and sometime his negativity can really slow down the process,
though it may not block the healing. Sometimes you have to sit down and explain
things to the husband, he may not really believe in God….
PC: That's one of the things I wanted to ask you about. What do you do about that-the question of God?
MS: Well, basically, just handle it with honesty. You've got to say, "Now, your wife is here because she's
got a problem and all I'm trying to do is help her with that problem." Then all I can do is just do my best for them.
In England there have never been charges for healing. Most healers in England don't charge, so
the guy knows that we're not trying to rip him off financially because it's free, anyway. So if
you can just sit the guy down--even if sometimes he's got arrogance--once he realizes that the
purpose of the healer is just to help him out, it has a bigger effect than if you try to preach to the guy.
PC: I noticed in the Venture Inward article that you said the healing has to touch the soul…
MS: Yes, the healing itself is funneled into the spirit and then it is transferred back to the physical body.
It goes to the spirit first, and then it is transferred back to the physical, but if the spirit is not open
(and sometimes it won't be open) to receive the energy…
PC: Do you mean by spirit, the aura?
MS: No, the aura is a reflection of your spiritual well-being. Basically, we're body, mind and spirit,
and the physical body is the vehicle for the spirit to travel in while it's on the earth plane. The spirit,
itself, when it passes into the spiritual world (as when the physical body dies), the spirit is then the
vehicle for the soul and eventually the soul won't require it--the vehicle of the soul will be complete.
Meanwhile, the spirit itself in the physical body has to open itself to allow that energy to be taken in
and, if it doesn't open up, doesn't accept it (for whatever reason), then usually the healing will fail;
it will be only a temporary effect if the spirit does not open up and take it on board. There
can be many reasons why the spirit won't open up and do it.
PC: What kinds of reasons?
MS: For example, there's a big belief that when the spirit incarnates, we all come into the earth for a reason…
PC: So, this involves past lives, does it?
MS: Not necessarily past lives. It could be, but sometimes the spirit, before it incarnates,
is shown a life plan of what awaits it and some of these spirits will take on the body of a
diseased or deformed person and will use it for a teaching modality to teach something to
somebody around it, like teaching patience. Or even the spirit itself may want the experience of
being in the wheelchair to have that spiritual growth; but if that is the deal; the spirit will not open
up. It will be saying, "Thank you very much for trying to help me, but I need this problem to
teach somebody a spiritual lesson. I need to reject this energy because I need
to complete my mission, so I will reject it."
Sometimes the spirit has gone into hibernation, if you like, and it is not aware that the energy
is there. It's like some people dying and they aren't even aware they're dying, but think that they
still have life and they think they'll live forever and they don't accept their death. And sometimes the
spirit will not accept that there is energy there waiting. Then there is karma--that it's not meant
to be-but, as you know, karma can be ended in any lifetime.
But when you think about it, God is saying, "Look, you've asked for energy, you've gone to
he healer, you're asking for divine help, I'm sending the energy on down, I don't
want you to be ill, to suffer, so why not take it on board?
PC: And I suppose that goes back to free will.
MS: Well, yes, free will and choice. We have choice. We can choose to
accept what God has to offer us or we can say, "No, thank you."
PC: When you said the thing about healing needing to touch the soul, there was a home circle
in England where for many years an entity named Silver Birch came through…
MS: Yes, I know about him…
PC: …and he said what you said in the article. I've quoted that in a class I sometimes
teach. So I was happy to see that you had included that in the Venture Inward
article and I wondered if you knew about Silver Birch…
MS: If you quote Silver Birch, there's a new book out. It's a great book. The book is
called, "Silver Birch, Questions and Answers." It came out about two years ago. Now the
medium for Silver Birch has been dead for quite a few years. What these two authors did
was go through all of the teachings of Silver Birch, stretching over a 40-year period of teaching
and they pulled in many of the questions and the answers that Silver Birch gave
and it's awesome. It takes you through any subject that you could want.
PC: That's great. I'll look for it.
What do you recommend that people do to test a spirit
who is coming to them with information or healing?
MS: Well, with regard to healing, all healing is from God. It is not from the devil as
many people will have you think. You know, you get the Fundamendalists saying that
these people are doing the devil's work and Jesus had the same accusations made to him
and he came back with, "A house divided cannot stand." In other words, if the devil is going
forward healing people of illness and even of possessing spirits, his house is not going to
stand, he can't be doing God's work. Like I say, about the other argument of the
Fundamendalists, I stopped arguing with them, there's no use arguing with them.
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About the so-called trance healers, you can try to put a question to them-you see,
in England, the Spiritualist people always say, test the spirit. Do not be afraid to ask them
a question, such as, "If this is a true seance, can you tell me the name of my mother?"
I have yet to find the correct information from any so-called trance healers. With the
clairvoyants, it's the same thing. However, the healing speaks for itself. If the people
get healed, that's great. Like I tell people, the physical healings are byproducts; it is always
the spirit itself that needs to be healed, it needs motivation, it needs to be stimulated, needs
to be moved on spiritually on the pathway. Quite often the healing energy will do that--not
always--but usually. In fact, there are some people who get healed spiritually, but not physically.
PC: What can people do to develop healing powers if they don't have
a class they can attend and they want to try to do healing?
MS: First of all, they have got to have the desire to do what they have to do. Then they
can do what I did. I started working on family members, just to know if I wanted to do this
healing work. Every time that you place hands on a person there should be some progress,
even if it's only slight progress. So, basically, you need to have a belief that the healing is
coming from God. You must have a belief and faith that God is with you while you're doing
the work. Then the motivation for doing the work has to be right, as well. If you're
doing it because it's coming from the dollar sign, then it's not going to get
very far; it's got to be coming from the heart.
PC: Are there any dangers that you can think of?
MS: There will come a time, if the healer follows his gift, that he will start getting attention
from the media and he will be asked to do radio interviews, TV interviews and newspaper
item interviews and when he is doing these interviews, he'll find the media are only interested
if he puts forward miracles. They're only going to mention the big miracles that have been
brought through. They're not going to talk about failures, because the newspaper doesn't want
to write about failures, just about miracles. So you're going to be mentioning miracles and
when people see you on TV and hear you on radio, all they're hearing is miracle, miracle,
miracle, and then, as many people come forward full of hope, faith, full of belief--sometimes
you have parents who bring a dying child to you--they've read your article and they think
this is going to save their child! They give the child to you and it doesn't work
and sometimes that can have a big negative effect.
PC: Is that hard on the healer?
MS: It's hard on the healer, but it's even harder on the parents…
PC: Yes, of course.
MS: I always tell the newspapers and magazines about failures, but the harmful side is
that they don't want to report about negative stuff. They need to be pointing out that it
doesn't work for everyone. Eventually, we do get it said that it doesn't work for everyone,
but sometimes on radio and television, just before the program starts, they'll say, "We just
need to hear the positive stuff." Another thing that's a good thing to know is, if the healing
can't do any good, (it's the energy work I'm talking about now), if it can't do
any good, it will leave the thing as it is. It won't do any harm.
PC: That's a good thing to point out to people. Do you train healers?
MS: Not really. I don't really have the time.
PC: Have you ever?
MS: But when I first came over to the States-I came over for the circuit for the ARE,
so, basically it's ARE people, really. They said we've just got one deviation. It's a
Unity Church. I taught some healing sessions with that church at that time.
I tell people, Just try and keep the healing simple. Just put the hands up and let the healing flow.
All you have to do is just put hands up and let that energy flow; but, unfortunately, for lots
of people, it's not simple, because it becomes too technical. It's also about the money you
know…I've seen the advertisements in the magazines and sometimes they're paying
hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to go on a week or
two-week course to learn hands-on healing, you know?
MS: If that desire is with the person to heal other people, all you have to do is reach
out and place hands on the person and let the energy flow. And, again, some healers
will spend up to two hours (I know healers who spend two hours on one patient) when
the first ten minutes will bring through what it's going to bring through. Anything after that
is purely psychological. The first ten minutes of the energy work is the time period that
brings through on that day what it's going to bring through to improve them.
PC: Do you do anything special, such as meditate? Do you pray, do you follow any special diet?
MS: In the morning when I go into the healing room, I say a brief prayer and ask God to give
healing to all the people who come there and to give me strength to get through
the day. That takes about 10 seconds. Then it's just hands on.
People come in and I ask what the problem is and I tell them what to expect. I say
don't expect instant miracles or guarantees that it's going to work. I'll do my best for you.
Then I spend maybe twenty minutes with energy work (but the first ten minutes is the
main factor). So the session does last half an hour with five minutes of talking,
20 minutes energy work, then another five minutes talking.
Then they usually have to wait two or three days for the energy they have been given to
manifest itself into something positive. Usually, it takes about three days until the
improvement. Some people are more receptive than others, with some people it's tomorrow,
but with other people, it's next week, but most people have to wait three days.
But there's not too much strain. At nighttime, I've got a book of names and I pray over the book.
I can't pray over each name--there are about 500 names in the book! I just ask God to give
healing to the people in there. It has to be a prayer from the heart. If it's just casual, it kind
of won't work. So it has to be a sincere prayer, each time, really meaning it when you're
asking God to give healing to the people--but basically, just keep it simple.
PC: I loved the way they ended the Venture Inward article:
If we just keep giving God the credit, we will succeed…
MS: God is the healer. Healers can't heal.
PC: If you were asked to define God, or explain what your idea of God was, what would you say?
MS: That's a tough question because you're talking to a guy who left school at 15.
What is God? Well, God is everything there is. God is love that brings happiness into a
person's life. God is everything, everywhere and in everything. He is in you; he is in me.
We're the same. In fact, in the Silver Birch book I mentioned, a question was asked, "When
the time comes that we no longer need our spirit body, and that divine spark of divinity that
came from God goes back to God, shall we lose our individuality when we "re-merge" with the
God force?" Silver Birch came back and said, "Does a single note of a violin lose itself in a
thousand-piece orchestra? Or does the wave lose itself in the ocean?" And he said,
"No, although you have "re-merged," you will still be who you are."
PC: That's a wonderful ending for this.
MS: Well, I never make guarantees or promises. I've had access to many,
many big miracles on numerous occasions; but I'm no stranger to failure, either.
I'll just share my favorite miracle with you and then I'm going to have to move on. Some
years ago, in England, I was taken by the parents of a teen-age boy who had been in a
major car accident. He was 19 at the time. He had been in a coma for nine months. His
surgeons had also determined that he was paralyzed from the neck down. His parents took
me with them to his bedside and I gave him healing and 20 minutes later, he came out
of a nine-month coma and he was no longer paralyzed. That was awesome.
Since then I've seen many similar to that. He gave those parents their son back.
All I try to do is channel the healing between the patient and God.
PC: Well, that's enough!
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